Executive Producer: Erik Petrik The most prominent media distribution channel on the Internet. To understand the Mars Hill phenomenon, you have to understand how big churches developed in the boomer and Gen X years, how the franchising of churches led to homogenized congregational culture, and how pastors became spokesmen and CEOs. Unintended consequences of failure porn. Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker The series especially perked the ears of those involved in church planting in North America because of Mars Hills' unique influence on the wave of new churches that started . Guided by careful research and hundreds of hours of interviews, Cosper plots out a story of church growth corrupted by power. In 2014, after more than a decade of tremendous growth and ministry, Mars Hill Church imploded with the resignation of its lead pastor, Mark Driscoll. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity Today He melded traditions like vestments with a theology of post-war optimism and self-esteem. By 2014, the church had grown to 15,000 people in 15 locations. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices, As production of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill progressed, another story was developinginside the walls of Christianity Today. You can learn more about Aundi and her work at www.aundikolber.com The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity Today Editor: TJ Hester The following is a transcript of the Q&A from the WWUTT podcast episode 1490, dated July 30, 2021, which opened with the following e-mails:. Associate Producers: Joy Beth Smith and Azurae Phelps Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Sex sells. He takes this story and presents it very directly and artistically without forcing a directive or denominational perspective. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill tells the stories of myriad hurts committed in the . The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. Learn more about your ad choices. He also co-founded The Gospel Coalition (TGC), an alliance of pastors and theologians with a shared theological vision. Quickly though, his star rose too far, keeping him at arms length from the collaboration and counsel of those who could lend wisdom to his youthful, combustive pastoral ministry.In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper breaks down how technology shaped the messaging and marketing of Mark Driscoll and how personal brand can isolate a leader even as it fuels a ministrys growth. I'm sure anyone here has already heard about this but if for some reason you haven't, it's worth checking out. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Church planting, even under the best of circumstances, always requires grit and determination. Our theme song for this finale is Resplendent by Bill Mallonee and the Vigilantes of Love. With delicate care, he unpacks the reactionary stream of sexuality that emerged at Mars Hill and exposes the struggle for authority and power beneath Mark Driscolls classic sermons on womanhood and sex. Learn more about your ad choices. He reveals Mark as far more than just an agent of chaos but a man deeply concerned for the health and spirituality of other men, intent on pastoring them toward flourishing. However, the bonus episode that Sign up free 0:00 0:00 Company When Mark Driscoll arrived to preach at the Crystal Cathedral, he had already walked a ministry path paved by the likes of Schuller, Bill Hybels, and Rick Warrenleaders who dedicated significant time to demographic research as well as expository study.In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper flips the tapestry of the Mars Hill story to expose the weaving of threads beneath. Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple If youve seen Marks famous viral videos or heard the sermon sound bytes, tune in to this episode for the fuller story. by Sara Williams February 21, 2022 The former site of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, the subject of a popular podcast. Produced, Written, and Edited by Mike Cosper Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Bonus Episode: A Conversation with Dan Allender, When author and therapist Dan Allender met Mark Driscoll in 1998, he hoped the two might share building space for their respective ministries. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . When technology removes the limits to access, you shouldnt be surprised when it also sings the alluring call of worldly success. Producer, Writer, Editor, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill" is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike Cosper Associate Producer: Joy Beth Smith Music, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Nicole Shanks Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Many people have been impacted by Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church--in positive and negative w. Your pastor doesnt need outsized fame and acclaim to fall prey to the seduction of power, and neither do you. Rethink your admiration for celebrity pastors. Reevaluate your attraction to religious trends. Executive Producer: Erik Petrik But in the next 18 years, it would become one of the largest, fastest-growing, and most influential churches in the United States. 24 episodes. It also explores the formative, almost liturgical effect it had on the church, and raises the question of how it might have contributed to a fragile architecture at the heart of the church. Three decades after his drive-in movie days, Schuller would welcome a young Mark Driscoll to the microphone to speak.To understand the Mars Hill phenomenon, you have to understand how big churches developed in the boomer and Gen X years, how the franchising of churches led to homogenized congregational culture, and how pastors became spokesmen and CEOs. Host Mike Cosper digs into "Who Killed Mars Hill," "The Things We Do To Women," "The Brand," and other things regarding the history of Mars Hill Church. Cosper interviews broadly, from Mars Hill media team members to Collin Hansen of The Gospel Coalition, to investigate how narcissism grows, how theological movements birth new leaders, and why the churchs love affair with charisma and certainty demands we develop a better moral imagination. And, like Marks campaign against diminished manhood, when sex sold in church, both men and women came up short.In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper addresses the femininity, fear, and fantasy that fueled conversations around gender and womanhood at Mars Hill. As his ministry grew, guest preaching in his pulpit became a mark of celebrity achievement. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity TodayExecutive Producer: Erik PetrikProducer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike CosperAssociate Producer: Joy Beth SmithMusic, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate SiefkerGraphic Design: Bryan ToddSocial Media: Nicole ShanksEditorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant DilleyEditor in Chief: Timothy DalrympleTheme song: Sticks and Stones by Kings KaleidoscopeClosing song: "Dynamite" by Sandra McCrackenLearn more about your ad choices. Special thanks to Ben Vandermeer Our aim is not to cast shade on Mark Driscoll or Mars Hill, but rather, to consider things that we all can learn. In the early days of your career, it is easy to find people who will give you honest feedback. Third, today is the beginning of Christianity Today's podcast series, "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill." You can hear the first episode "Who Killed Mars Hill?" here. It might be hard to imagine a church harnessing this popular marketing technique for church growth, but that's exactly what Mark Driscoll did in Seattle in the early 2000s. I like where Mike Cosper is going with this. That was the catalyst to faith, and a walk in the woods a few months later led to an experience of hearing Gods audible voice and calling: Marry Grace, plant Mars Hill, preach the Bible, and train men. Meet a church culture that considered relational fallout as simply part of the job. Planting in one of the most progressive cities in the US at the turn of the millennium required even more. Tim Keller moved to New York City in 1989 to plant Redeemer Presbyterian Church. You dont gossip and call it a podcast. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper addresses the femininity, fear, and fantasy that fueled conversations around gender and womanhood at Mars Hill. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Mars Hill grew dramatically in 2012, and it seemed like nothing could stop the churchs ever-widening expansion. Most of the churchs founding members thought Christian contemporary music was too saccharine and polished for their tastes, and what evolved at Mars Hill reflected the gritty and dark sounds of the city around them. Skip to Content Cultural Issues Discernment Christianity Today Mark Driscoll Mars Hill Mike Cooper Wisdom Jesse Randolph Jesse Randolph Hosted by Mike Cosper, this podcast takes you inside the story of Mars Hill Church in Seattle - from its founding as part of one of the largest church planting movements in American history to its very public dissolutionand the aftermath that followed. Graphic Design: Bryan Todd The church quickly proved to be a magnet for spiritual seekers of all kinds eager Christians looking to build, apathetic Christians needing renewal, and non-Christians hearing the gospel in a new context. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity Today "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill" is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Editor: TJ Hester Associate. If you've experienced spiritual abuse or you desire deeper honesty and humility in ministry, this bonus episode offers a foundational conversation about how to face trauma, how to identify unhealthy leadership patterns, and how to resist the siren call of sin that lures Christians to greatness without cost. Hosted by Mike Cosper, this podcast takes you inside the story of Mars Hill Church in Seattle - from its founding as part of one of the largest church planting movements in American history to its very public dissolutionand the aftermath that followed. The earliest days of Mars Hill were a whirlwind of activity launching new campuses, preaching as many as seven times a Sunday, assimilating new people, and developing newministries all at once. Robert Schuller began preaching in a drive-in movie theater in Southern California. From the churchs beginning, Mars Hill leadership committed to all of these -- a vision of Jesus as senior pastor with elders serving with one vote each. But somewhere along the line, the vision shifted. Producer, Writer, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Learn more about your ad choices. He left ministry in 2015, and in 2019, announced that he no longer identified as a Christian. Produced for Christianity Today, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a podcast telling the story of the explosive rise and fall of a Seattle Megachurch and its charismatic pastor, Mark Driscoll. For more information about Dan Allenders work, visit theallendercenter.org This podcast is getting an . But if Mark Driscoll struggled with anything in his ministry, it wasnt a lack of will. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Church planting, even under the best of circumstances, always requires grit and determination. It illuminates the nature of the so-called Young, Restless, and Reformed, New Calvinism, and Emerging Church movements as well as it illuminates the nature of what Carl Trueman has called " Big Eva ." The podcast series is not failure porn nor is too harsh. Special thanks to Ben Vandermeer August 13, 2021 (CAROL STREAM, Illinois). Though he prized the image of a solo, entrepreneurial pastor, Driscoll found early success thanks to two co-planters, a sending church, and a network of support. And, take a look in the mirror to ask why we keep doing this -- elevating leaders whose charisma outpaces their character.Loaded with piercing and poignant interviews, this episode invites you to release preconceived notions about this familiar story and listen afresh to a narrative that feels painfully relevant more than a decade later.Wonder why Christianity Today features stories like these? Learn more about your ad choices. Whether condemning the Western erosion of manhood or elevating women as Christian pornographic ideals, preaching from the Mars Hill pulpit mixed toxic cultural messages with biblical theology in the name of forming men, women, and families for God. Well talk about faith, doubt, and celebrit, Church planting isnt for the faint of heart. Photo by Joe Wolf (used via Creative Commons license) In all kinds of communities, the stories we tell about who we are and where we came from are life-shaping. Theme Song: Sticks and Stones Kings Kaleidoscope Thirty years later, Allender joins host Mike Cosper for an honest conversation about where that narcissism led and how Mars Hill Church and the city of Seattle suffered under its dogmatism. CTs Editor in Chief is Timothy Dalrymple. Men responded enthusiastically. That story was repeated countless times at Mars Hill, lending Driscoll a sense of both authority and purpose, and inviting the church to get caught up in that mission with him. Often selected for their charisma and talent, Mars Hill bands found that few cared about the condition of their souls or the posture of their spirits. Learn more about your ad choices. Meet those who never left. And as Driscolls particular brand of masculinity grew toxic, Cosper asks the poignant question, Why do you stay when things get bad? How do you reckon with the movement of the Spirit in your midst when your community begins to shatter? Just finished "The Rise And Fall Of Mars Hill" podcast by Christianity Today. When Mark Driscoll arrived to preach at the Crystal Cathedral, he had already walked a ministry path paved by the likes of Schuller, Bill Hybels, and Rick Warrenleaders who dedicated significant time to demographic research as well as expository study. In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper flips the tapestry of the Mars, In 2014, after more than a decade of tremendous growth and ministry, Mars Hill Church imploded with the resignation of its lead pastor, Mark Driscoll. [2] He is known to have deeply regretted not spending more time with his wife and children. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Hosted by Mike Cosper, this podcast takes you inside the story of Mars Hill Church in Seattle - from its founding as part of one of the largest church planting movements in American history to its very public dissolutionand the aftermath that followed. Mike is the creator and host of the uber popular podcast series: "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill," which many people have praised and some people have critiq. Subscriptions are a great way to do that, and wed love if you considered us with your end-of-year giving. Who could be held responsible for the hurt and disillusionment that resulted?In this inaugural episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper begins at the end, investigating the rubble of Mars Hills fall for answers. Youll also see signs of volatility in Marks ministry. Producer, Writer, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper At Mars Hill, one of the oft-told stories was about Mark Driscolls origin and calling. And, like Marks campaign against diminished manhood, when sex sold in church, both men and women came up short.In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper addresses the femininity, fear, and fantasy that fueled conversations around gender and womanhood at Mars Hill. Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple From dad talks about issues about sex, career and family to holy anger over a feminized church culture, he invited men into a stirring narrative where manning up meant passionately loving God and their families. As production of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill progressed, another story was . You'll hear from insiders and experts, tracing the threads of this story to so many others that shape the church today. Truth Unites Gavin Ortlund. Director of Operations: Matt Stevens Links: Mark had risen to prominence with pugilistic bravado, and local leaders expressed concern that his tone and language about women and, in this particular instance, pastors wives hurt the perception of the church in their largely unchurched city. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity Today Individuals' spiritual trauma has born out in subsequentchurch relationships and even personal spiritual practices like Bible study and prayer. The earliest days of Mars Hill were a whirlwind of activity launching new campuses, preaching as many as seven times a Sunday, assimilating new people, and developing newministries all at once. Joy Beth Smith is our associate producer. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices. Additional Editing: Resonate Recordings and Matt Linder Well also look for the presence of Christ, working in surprising and unseen ways to bring beauty out of the ashes of what was once Mars Hill Church. The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Youll see Mark Driscoll not only as a preacher and a movement leader, but as a caring pastor. NASHVILLE (BP) - It can be easy to draw the wrong conclusion if one only pays attention to the title of the podcast "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill," warns Mike Cosper. Closing Song: "Satisfied in You" by Brian Eichelberger Whether In our series finale, we follow a few of those threads, which led some people to new ministries, others to new careers, and still others out of the church altogether. Producer, Writer, Editor, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper CT's "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill:" An Inquiry Although it's not popular in my circles to say it, I have somewhat mixed feelings about Christianity Today's (CT) newest podcast, hosted by Mike Cosper, "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill." Let me start with all of the things I love about it. Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Cosper interviews broadly, from Mars Hill media team members to Collin Hansen of The Gospel Coalition, to investigate how narcissism grows, how theological movements birth new leaders, and why th, Sex sells. Stick around at the end of the episode as Kate Shellnut and Daniel Silliman discuss why talking about church culture and leadership matters. Social Media: Morgan Lee and Kara Bettis The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Subscribe Play Share Series home Feed Hosted by Mike Cosper, this podcast takes you inside the story of Mars Hill Church in Seattle - from its founding as part of one of the largest church planting movements in American history to its very public dissolutionand the aftermath that followed. Social Media: Kate Lucky The book sold millions and made him, in Collin Hansen's terms, an "evangeli Meet Mark, the firebrand cussing pastor whose ministry of breaking conventions called men and women to transformation and whose rebellion touched a nerve with those inside and outside the church. Will you tell the truth about yourself when its embarrassing to do so? Mike Cosper talks with Dan Allender about his early interactions with Mark Driscoll and the very different paths of ministry they chose to pursue in the city of Seattle. Meet a church culture that considered relational fallout as simply part of the job. It might be hard to imagine a church harnessing this popular marketing technique for church growth, but thats exactly what Mark Driscoll did in Seattle in the early 2000s. There has never been a narrative-style Christian podcast that matches the quality of this one. Recently, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill (a Christianity Today podcast that looks into why Mars Hill church met such a quick demise) released a bonus episode. Podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Founded in 1996, Seattle's Mars Hill Church was poised to be an influential, undeniable force in evangelicalismthat is until its spiraling collapse. It's a podcast mini series gaining popularity and it chronicles the story of Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill church. Hosted by Mike Cosper, this podcast takes you inside the story of Mars Hill Church in Seattle - from its founding as part of one of the largest church planting movements in American history to its very public dissolutionand the aftermath that followed. In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper speaks to Yuval Levin and Roger Berkowitz about the connections between the failure of our cultural institutions and the phenomena of rootlessness and loneliness, exploring how these related phenomena create the preconditions for charismatic leaders and corruption, He also talks to Russell Moore about what change looks like in the ruins, starting small, and the power of remembering our death. Whenever The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill comes up in conversation, people mention the production quality. Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple We also discuss Driscoll's recent pamphlet "Christian Theology Vs Critical Theory". The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity Today The earliest days of Mars Hill were a whirlwind of activity launching new campuses, preaching as many as seven times a Sunday, assimilating new people, and developing newministries all at once. Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Cosper explores what happens when words meant to protect women end up hurting them and how theology about headship and submission can create fear and shame when wielded by the wrong hands. In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper sits down with therapist Aundi Kolber to investigate the roots of spiritual trauma and chart a path forward after pain. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity TodayExecutive Producer: Erik PetrikProducer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike CosperAssociate Producer: Joy Beth SmithMusic, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate SiefkerGraphic Design: Bryan ToddSocial Media: Nicole ShanksEditorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant DilleyEditor in Chief: Timothy DalrympleTheme song: Sticks and Stones by Kings KaleidoscopeClosing song: Woman by Jackie Hill PerryLearn more about your ad choices. With a talented team and generous budget at his fingertips, Mark dreamed big. Cosper interviews broadly, from Mars Hill media team members to Collin Hansen of The Gospel Coalition, to investigate how narcissism grows, how theological movements birth new leaders, and why the churchs love affair with charisma and certainty demands we develop a better moral imagination. With delicate care, he unpacks the reactionary stream of sexuality that emerged at Mars Hill and exposes the struggle for authority and power beneath Mark Driscolls classic sermons on womanhood and sex. Editorial consulting by Andrea Palpant Dilley Listen as well to how CT plans to move forward as they seek to respond with transparency, fairness, and accountability. Once a hub for those disenfranchised with cultural Christianity, Mars Hills characteristic punk rock spirit became its downfall as power, fame and spiritual trauma invaded the ministry. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Bonus Episode: Healing and Resurrection After Spiritual Trauma, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hilltells the stories of myriad hurts committed in the name of Christ and his church. It seemed appropriate to us to have a conversation about the podcast. Hosted by Mike Cosper, this podcast takes you inside the story of Mars Hill Church in Seattle from its founding as part of one of the largest church planting movements in American history to its very public dissolutionand the aftermath that followed. This podcast, by Christianity Today, takes a deep dive into the Mark Driscoll/Mars Hill scandal. Using the lesser known Mars Hill demon trials as a backdrop, Cosper explores the Pentecostal origins of Driscolls deliverance ministry, examines the e, Bonus Episode: Questioning the Origin Myth - A Rise and Fall Short Story, Theres a profound power to storytelling. It's really good. But if Mark Driscoll struggled with anything in his ministry, it wasnt a lack of will. It's a story of systemic spiritual abuse, and I definitely recommend it. Rethink your admiration for celebrity pastors. The show is hosted by Mike Cosper and produced by Christianity Today . Over the last several weeks, flagship evangelical magazine Christianity Today has been rolling out a podcast series chronicling this tumultuous saga, entitled " The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. The focus throughout the 12 episodes (not including a few "bonus content" episodes) is Mars Hill's charismatic . It's a pattern that extends far beyond Mars Hill, into the realm of politics, academia, media, and more. The Rise, Coming Up on The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, We have 5 episodes left on The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. As we end 2021, wed love to invite you to join us as we continue to try to tell stories like this. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Podcast The Christianity Today podcast series includes nine episodes, all but one close to an hour in length. The Bulletin is a podcast for Christians seeking insights into the events, questions, and people that are shaping their world. Youll see Mark Driscoll not only as a preacher and a movement leader, but as a caring pastor. Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple In this episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper addresses the femininity, fear, and fantasy that fueled conversations around gender and womanhood at Mars Hill. The church's nearly 13,000-person Sunday attendance totals quickly dissolved, its headquarters and branch campuses were closed or sold. Very helpful and informative. He explores how the identity of a church can become wrapped around one man and why a host of leaders might fall in step to protect him in order to save the institution.Here, you can read an interview with David Di Sabatino, director of Frisbee: The Life and Death of a Hippie Preacher.The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a production of Christianity TodayExecutive Producer: Erik PetrikProducer, Writer, Editor, and Host: Mike CosperAssociate Producer: Joy Beth SmithMusic, Sound Design, and Mix Engineer: Kate SiefkerGraphic Design: Bryan ToddSocial Media: Nicole ShanksEditorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant DilleyEditor in Chief: Timothy DalrympleTheme song: Sticks and Stones by Kings KaleidoscopeClosing song: Crush by The Violet BurningLearn more about your ad choices. In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, well explore Joshs story as a contemporary of Mark Driscoll, someone who was his polar opposite in temperament, and whos struggles in ministry led to a divergent outcome. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill | Podcast on Spotify Home Search Your Library Create Playlist Liked Songs Privacy Center Privacy Policy Cookies About Ads Your Privacy Choices Cookies English Preview of Spotify Sign up to get unlimited songs and podcasts with occasional ads. And three thousand miles away in Boca Raton, Florida, the concept of the Acts 29 church network was already taking shape as an offshoot of the Spanish River Church Planting Network. Graphic Design: Bryan Todd But in the next two years, the church would experience endless controversy, turn over almost all of their staff, and discover that no efforts at PR or spin could hide the rot of a deeply dysfunctional culture of leadership. The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Podcast. Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley But while Driscoll wielded his own force of personality to get as much distance from Mars Hill as possible, life in Seattle was a different story. Closing song: O How the Mighty Have Fallen by The Choir Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Who could be held responsible for the hurt and disillusionment that resulted? But like many other facets of the Mars Hill story, there was much behind the music. But how did things fall apart? In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper sits down with Chad Gardner, worship leader at Mars Hill, to hear the hard and beautiful stories of the music that defined the community. With delicate care, he unpacks the reactionary stream of sexuality that emerged at Mars Hill and exposes the struggle for authority and power beneath Mark Driscolls classic sermons on womanhood and sex. Listen to the trailer and subscribe today. But if Mark Driscoll struggled with anything in his ministry, it wasnt a lack of will. 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